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	<title>Comments on: Digital users are volunteers as well as consumers</title>
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	<link>http://citizensheep.com/blog/2009/06/26/digital-users-are-volunteers-as-well-as-consumers/</link>
	<description>Michael Grimes lives in Birmingham (UK). This is his blog about anything that he fancies.</description>
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		<title>By: cyberdoyle</title>
		<link>http://citizensheep.com/blog/2009/06/26/digital-users-are-volunteers-as-well-as-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-12977</link>
		<dc:creator>cyberdoyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizensheep.com/blog/?p=1805#comment-12977</guid>
		<description>Michael - I think you are a shining example of how social media works in an area of decent connectivity. I on the other hand know the other side of the story where connections are so poor (many around here can&#039;t even get decent dial up and no mobile either) that social media hasn&#039;t even raised its head on the horizon.
I agree that the digitalbritain report missed out us community volunteers, but I still think the main priority is getting ubiquitous access to everyone. Once the infrastructure is fit for purpose and doesn&#039;t let people down so much they will embrace the tech and use it the way you are doing. Once it is more reliable even the non techie folk will learn how it works and come to trust it. Not putting all your eggs in one SM basket means that if twitter goes down we can turn to wave or msn or skype. Building up a good contact list using all the tools available. Studying how they work and making the most of each. Great work is possible, but not when signals drop out, pages time out and folk are still very disillusioned with t&#039;internet. I speak to many. I am not making this up... truly.
chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael &#8211; I think you are a shining example of how social media works in an area of decent connectivity. I on the other hand know the other side of the story where connections are so poor (many around here can&#8217;t even get decent dial up and no mobile either) that social media hasn&#8217;t even raised its head on the horizon.<br />
I agree that the digitalbritain report missed out us community volunteers, but I still think the main priority is getting ubiquitous access to everyone. Once the infrastructure is fit for purpose and doesn&#8217;t let people down so much they will embrace the tech and use it the way you are doing. Once it is more reliable even the non techie folk will learn how it works and come to trust it. Not putting all your eggs in one SM basket means that if twitter goes down we can turn to wave or msn or skype. Building up a good contact list using all the tools available. Studying how they work and making the most of each. Great work is possible, but not when signals drop out, pages time out and folk are still very disillusioned with t&#8217;internet. I speak to many. I am not making this up&#8230; truly.<br />
chris</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Daniels</title>
		<link>http://citizensheep.com/blog/2009/06/26/digital-users-are-volunteers-as-well-as-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-7036</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Daniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizensheep.com/blog/?p=1805#comment-7036</guid>
		<description>Great post Michael. I&#039;m really interested in your point here and use of the word &#039;volunteer&#039; in the broadest sense. I think you&#039;ve touched on something critical.

I actually think that the advent of the mass adoption of social media has meant that people are volunteering their time to effect social change in all sorts of new ways without ever imagining what they&#039;re doing is volunteering. Our way of looking at volunteering has not kept up with the changes brought about by social media. The still think of volunteering in the old fashioned sense of someone volunteering when they&#039;re taking on a formal role with a formally constituted organisation.

Just as old media journos are finding they&#039;re disintermediated by citizens on the scene with equipment necessary to document news as it happens, charities are finding the same. That is, people no longer need go through a big well-established, well-known charity to get involved in the promotion of a cause they believe in. They can now contribute by galvanising their own social networks online to back small groups and informal organisations that exist or even create their own.

Your point that the Digital Britain report fails to recognise social media&#039;s contribution to changing our attitude and methods to bringing about social change, is symptomatic of how the tech debate is all too often focussed on the tool itself, rather than putting the tool in the background and putting the social impact enabled by the tool front and centre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Michael. I&#8217;m really interested in your point here and use of the word &#8216;volunteer&#8217; in the broadest sense. I think you&#8217;ve touched on something critical.</p>
<p>I actually think that the advent of the mass adoption of social media has meant that people are volunteering their time to effect social change in all sorts of new ways without ever imagining what they&#8217;re doing is volunteering. Our way of looking at volunteering has not kept up with the changes brought about by social media. The still think of volunteering in the old fashioned sense of someone volunteering when they&#8217;re taking on a formal role with a formally constituted organisation.</p>
<p>Just as old media journos are finding they&#8217;re disintermediated by citizens on the scene with equipment necessary to document news as it happens, charities are finding the same. That is, people no longer need go through a big well-established, well-known charity to get involved in the promotion of a cause they believe in. They can now contribute by galvanising their own social networks online to back small groups and informal organisations that exist or even create their own.</p>
<p>Your point that the Digital Britain report fails to recognise social media&#8217;s contribution to changing our attitude and methods to bringing about social change, is symptomatic of how the tech debate is all too often focussed on the tool itself, rather than putting the tool in the background and putting the social impact enabled by the tool front and centre.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://citizensheep.com/blog/2009/06/26/digital-users-are-volunteers-as-well-as-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-6387</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizensheep.com/blog/?p=1805#comment-6387</guid>
		<description>My point about commercial organisations such as Twitter is that they don&#039;t know - any more than the rest of us - how our use of the tools is going to affect subtle but profound changes in social interaction: they don&#039;t know what will break so they can&#039;t plan for it. So when things &lt;em&gt;do&lt;/em&gt; break, it will tend to be commercial decisions that present a solution and not societal ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point about commercial organisations such as Twitter is that they don&#8217;t know &#8211; any more than the rest of us &#8211; how our use of the tools is going to affect subtle but profound changes in social interaction: they don&#8217;t know what will break so they can&#8217;t plan for it. So when things <em>do</em> break, it will tend to be commercial decisions that present a solution and not societal ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Harte</title>
		<link>http://citizensheep.com/blog/2009/06/26/digital-users-are-volunteers-as-well-as-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-6386</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Harte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizensheep.com/blog/?p=1805#comment-6386</guid>
		<description>Actually, I didn&#039;t address your substantial point about the tools. 4iP represents an attempt to find sustainable business models for this kind of stuff but models that don&#039;t lose sight of their value as public service engagement tools. I&#039;d contend that our paternalistic approach to government and to media means that commercial bodies don&#039;t quite hold the sway over our social infrastructures that they might in other countries. I concur with Andy, below. We&#039;ll build the tools we need if the current ones become out of reach. 
Oh and I&#039;m maintaining that it is a call to arms. You&#039;re in there. You&#039;re in the words they haven&#039;t written, the gaps they&#039;ve left, the plans that aren&#039;t fully formed yet. You&#039;re all over this...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I didn&#8217;t address your substantial point about the tools. 4iP represents an attempt to find sustainable business models for this kind of stuff but models that don&#8217;t lose sight of their value as public service engagement tools. I&#8217;d contend that our paternalistic approach to government and to media means that commercial bodies don&#8217;t quite hold the sway over our social infrastructures that they might in other countries. I concur with Andy, below. We&#8217;ll build the tools we need if the current ones become out of reach. <br />
Oh and I&#8217;m maintaining that it is a call to arms. You&#8217;re in there. You&#8217;re in the words they haven&#8217;t written, the gaps they&#8217;ve left, the plans that aren&#8217;t fully formed yet. You&#8217;re all over this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://citizensheep.com/blog/2009/06/26/digital-users-are-volunteers-as-well-as-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-6384</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizensheep.com/blog/?p=1805#comment-6384</guid>
		<description>Dave, I do agree that it&#039;s a good report. But I don&#039;t see a &#039;call to arms to the voluntary sector&#039;: although membership of the consortium you refer to does currently include a charity (NIACE), it is up to Ofcom to widen it; the sector itself is not guaranteed resources or support even if it did decide to take up arms.

And I still think that &#039;using the stuff we know works&#039; relies on that stuff &lt;em&gt;to &lt;/em&gt;work, and that ought to be better supported.

(I hope that makes some sense, I&#039;m probably too tired to be writing this now!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I do agree that it&#8217;s a good report. But I don&#8217;t see a &#8216;call to arms to the voluntary sector&#8217;: although membership of the consortium you refer to does currently include a charity (NIACE), it is up to Ofcom to widen it; the sector itself is not guaranteed resources or support even if it did decide to take up arms.</p>
<p>And I still think that &#8216;using the stuff we know works&#8217; relies on that stuff <em>to </em>work, and that ought to be better supported.</p>
<p>(I hope that makes some sense, I&#8217;m probably too tired to be writing this now!)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://citizensheep.com/blog/2009/06/26/digital-users-are-volunteers-as-well-as-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-6382</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizensheep.com/blog/?p=1805#comment-6382</guid>
		<description>Andy, I agree completely. My concern is that too much importance is placed on the relatively tangible issues of commercial interest and digital engagement, and not enough on worrying about how the ensuing changes in social interactions, norms and cultures are supported and not simply left at the mercy of the market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, I agree completely. My concern is that too much importance is placed on the relatively tangible issues of commercial interest and digital engagement, and not enough on worrying about how the ensuing changes in social interactions, norms and cultures are supported and not simply left at the mercy of the market.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Mabbett</title>
		<link>http://citizensheep.com/blog/2009/06/26/digital-users-are-volunteers-as-well-as-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-6380</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Mabbett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizensheep.com/blog/?p=1805#comment-6380</guid>
		<description>P.S. I urge you to post a summery of your post, and a link to it, at  http://digitalbritainforum.org.uk/report/ the commentable version of the report (even though the report is final, so we can&#039;t change its content).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. I urge you to post a summery of your post, and a link to it, at  <a href="http://digitalbritainforum.org.uk/report/" rel="nofollow">http://digitalbritainforum.org.uk/report/</a> the commentable version of the report (even though the report is final, so we can&#8217;t change its content).</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Mabbett</title>
		<link>http://citizensheep.com/blog/2009/06/26/digital-users-are-volunteers-as-well-as-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-6379</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Mabbett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizensheep.com/blog/?p=1805#comment-6379</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right to point out that &quot;Digital volunteers&quot; (if we may call them that) rely on social media tools - but more than that, they (we!) /make/ the tools - from open source software, to mashups, to filling Wikipedia with content.

That&#039;s not to say that your point about &quot;the hold that commercial bodies have over our social infrastructures&quot; is wrong - just suppose if Twitter announced, tomorrow, that all their users had to pay a membership fee? Or decided to block all mention of, say, Google?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right to point out that &#8220;Digital volunteers&#8221; (if we may call them that) rely on social media tools &#8211; but more than that, they (we!) /make/ the tools &#8211; from open source software, to mashups, to filling Wikipedia with content.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say that your point about &#8220;the hold that commercial bodies have over our social infrastructures&#8221; is wrong &#8211; just suppose if Twitter announced, tomorrow, that all their users had to pay a membership fee? Or decided to block all mention of, say, Google?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Harte</title>
		<link>http://citizensheep.com/blog/2009/06/26/digital-users-are-volunteers-as-well-as-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-6378</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Harte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizensheep.com/blog/?p=1805#comment-6378</guid>
		<description>The key thing with Carter&#039;s report is identify the opportunities it presents and do our best to shape them into solutions that make a difference. I think it&#039;s a really well crafted report. Read through last year&#039;s Creative Britain and you&#039;ll see what I mean. 

There are two areas where Digital Britain sees a role for the community you refer to. Firstly, in &#039;Getting Britain Online&#039; Carter talks about the consortium that will deliver Digital Participation - the switchover bit. The thinking&#039;s a tad clunky as it seems to make a comparison to Digital TV switchover but it does focus on how to do &#039;targeted outreach&#039; - that surely is a call to arms to the volunteer community.

Secondly, in discussing new models for regional news he makes explicit reference to the role of community blogging as a new form of newsgathering. Now there&#039;s an opportunity if ever there was one!

The stuff about content producers is talking solely to the business community. The digital test-bed idea from the Technology Strategy Board is an acknowledgement that we still don&#039;t know what works and what doesn&#039;t in terms of making money - therefore let&#039;s set up a space to do some testing. That&#039;s fine but the real action is amongst the social media community using the stuff they know works. Motivating digital participation with tried and tested methods developed through active engagement.

So for me the areas you can write yourself into are Digital Participation and Regional News. In fact that&#039;s what I like about this report - it&#039;s full of spaces that people should be writing their futures into. It&#039;s a call to arms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key thing with Carter&#8217;s report is identify the opportunities it presents and do our best to shape them into solutions that make a difference. I think it&#8217;s a really well crafted report. Read through last year&#8217;s Creative Britain and you&#8217;ll see what I mean. </p>
<p>There are two areas where Digital Britain sees a role for the community you refer to. Firstly, in &#8216;Getting Britain Online&#8217; Carter talks about the consortium that will deliver Digital Participation &#8211; the switchover bit. The thinking&#8217;s a tad clunky as it seems to make a comparison to Digital TV switchover but it does focus on how to do &#8216;targeted outreach&#8217; &#8211; that surely is a call to arms to the volunteer community.</p>
<p>Secondly, in discussing new models for regional news he makes explicit reference to the role of community blogging as a new form of newsgathering. Now there&#8217;s an opportunity if ever there was one!</p>
<p>The stuff about content producers is talking solely to the business community. The digital test-bed idea from the Technology Strategy Board is an acknowledgement that we still don&#8217;t know what works and what doesn&#8217;t in terms of making money &#8211; therefore let&#8217;s set up a space to do some testing. That&#8217;s fine but the real action is amongst the social media community using the stuff they know works. Motivating digital participation with tried and tested methods developed through active engagement.</p>
<p>So for me the areas you can write yourself into are Digital Participation and Regional News. In fact that&#8217;s what I like about this report &#8211; it&#8217;s full of spaces that people should be writing their futures into. It&#8217;s a call to arms.</p>
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		<title>By: Leonardo Morgado</title>
		<link>http://citizensheep.com/blog/2009/06/26/digital-users-are-volunteers-as-well-as-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-6369</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonardo Morgado</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 06:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizensheep.com/blog/?p=1805#comment-6369</guid>
		<description>The value of volunteers can never be underestimated.  In every social inclusion projects you can see swathes of people giving up their time and energies simply because they believe in what they are doing needs to be done and don&#039;t get and more importantly don&#039;t expect any financial recompense.
You have raised a very important question with regards to the Digital Britain report.  Is it about people&#039;s needs or is it about creating revenue for certain businesses?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The value of volunteers can never be underestimated.  In every social inclusion projects you can see swathes of people giving up their time and energies simply because they believe in what they are doing needs to be done and don&#8217;t get and more importantly don&#8217;t expect any financial recompense.<br />
You have raised a very important question with regards to the Digital Britain report.  Is it about people&#8217;s needs or is it about creating revenue for certain businesses?</p>
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